Centre of Tallahassee

Coverage and Discussion of Projects Underway within the City of Tallahassee and Leon County.

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Wed May 17, 2017 9:21 am

Normally I would agree with that, except there is a lot of vacant commercial property in the North Monroe corridor AND there is already of number of older small shops in the Centre talking about leaving at the end of their leases. There is available spots from Northwood (though it is in receivership right now) through various properties into Midtown North Monroe available asap. The big issue is Burlington (who has put a good bit of money into their footprint), Belk and AMC. The problem for the current property is it is half done, seems to be no money to finish it and the concept of the amphitheater driving business does not seem to be working at all. And now it appears it has lost its driving inspiration. And don't even get me started on what happens as the new outlet mall goes online up on I-10/Cap Circ NW. If I was the developer there I would be making a real push to snipe AMC and Burlington.

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StrikerObi
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by StrikerObi » Wed May 17, 2017 11:05 am

I don't think AMC is going anywhere anytime soon. They've poured tons of money into upgrades for that cinema over the last few years even in spite of the terrible mismanagement of the rest of the mall property.

I think the developers were right to keep the AMC / Belk portion of the building in-tact and remodel it. It's a shame they were wrong about basically everything else.

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LCpro
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Wed May 17, 2017 11:06 am

A few things...
The Northwood Center is not a viable option for many/any current tenants.

The available buildings on Monroe are mostly in bad condition, have bad locations or the owners are not being realistic. Further, I'm not sure what property would be conducive to any current tenant.

The asking rents in Midtown and other proposed developments in the area are not remotely feasible for current mall tenants. I just heard somebody is asking $45/sf for some new space on Thomasville Road and some current center owner is trying to triple his rent on a well-known local restaurant. Its laughable.

The proposed outlet mall at I-10 & CCNW is just that - proposed. Its not definite its even being built. You'd be looking at 2019/2020 at best if they had a development plan fully approved by the end of this year(and I don't think they have even submitted any plan). Also, a lease is a contract. You start treading on dangerous legal grounds when you start trying to "Snipe" tenants under existing leases.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by Watkins1973 » Wed May 17, 2017 11:28 am

StrikerObi wrote:I don't think AMC is going anywhere anytime soon. They've poured tons of money into upgrades for that cinema over the last few years even in spite of the terrible mismanagement of the rest of the mall property.
The former GM of our AMC told me while the renovations were going on that they owned their property; there was no lease. Their land is theirs, and the mall happens to be around it.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by Poonther » Wed May 17, 2017 11:39 am

tricknole wrote:
thedoorlatch wrote:I agree with Ziffer's position that questions about the mall project are premature considering the tragedy that occurred.
You're kidding right? The mall has been a turd since last summer. That was well before his recent passing.





Bingo! Appreciate your bluntness Tricknole 


 I'll repeat this again...this is the same company just reorganized that went bankrupt and left us with a shell of Fallschase. Why do we expect anything different here especially with the patriarch's death?  I see that as a nail in the coffin of this disaster.


IMHO even with my lack of sense ;) Belk, AMC, Burlington and possibly B&N and old Dillards (new school) should have been left freestanding and everything else should have been bulldozed. Then the place should have been all outdoors (sort like they have now) and should have targeted ONLY entertainment type tenants. They were on the right track with amphitheater & the lost brewery but as we've seen in the past w/Fallschase the company can't complete a vision.

Hate being the "Debbie Downer" on this project but it was obvious from the start it was never gonna work.

Finally who would like to take a bet those proposed apartments will never be built?

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Wed May 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Something else I will point out is that when they did this big change, they did very little to alter the appearance from Monroe other that seeing the top of the amphitheater. Which from a distance looks like the roof of a pole barn. The visual one sees from Monroe is a decrepit pawn shop, dead gas station, huge amounts of blank white wall, Dollar Store, trees and the roof of a dead out building and one LED lit sign.

Not very inviting to the casual passer byer.

And again, because they have done zilch for the interior of the mall, anyone that goes into the old section thinks they have entered the mall from the Dawn of the Dead.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by DMartin » Wed May 17, 2017 12:10 pm

The folks who brought us Magnolia Grove did it right. Popular mainstays like Starbucks, new to market like Mission BBQ and Stanton Optical and moved Village Inn and Comcast from their old buildings into brand new digs. It proves it can be done in this town...it just has to be done right.

Mahan Village is another prime example.

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LCpro
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Wed May 17, 2017 3:08 pm

Watkins1973 wrote:
StrikerObi wrote:I don't think AMC is going anywhere anytime soon. They've poured tons of money into upgrades for that cinema over the last few years even in spite of the terrible mismanagement of the rest of the mall property.
The former GM of our AMC told me while the renovations were going on that they owned their property; there was no lease. Their land is theirs, and the mall happens to be around it.
No, that's is not correct.

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Wed May 17, 2017 4:07 pm

LCPro is absolutely correct, their is no separate enclave for the AMC on the mall parcel per the Leon County Property Appraisers site. The may have one of those near ownership super duper 99 year with infinite renewal option type leases, but they do not actually own the land. Crazy thing is that the AMC building actually sits on all three separate parcels that make up the mall property. The parcels border lines converge about where the bar is located in the AMC.

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Wed May 17, 2017 4:23 pm

The problem right now is most all the businesses in there that sell product (not the service places like the AMC and the gaming place upstairs) are not going to stick around if they see another holiday season coming down the pike like they had last year. And the only way to fix that, at least in part is get the enclosed part of the mall fixed up cosmetically and infrastructurally so it does not feel and look like a rough neighborhood. That also means a ton of cleanup, painting, flooring and ceiling finishes, fixing the leaks, mechanicals (escalators) and electrical issues that are rampant in the building, sealing up the open walls (not with tarps or plywood) and getting tenants into the empty store fronts. That also means biting a huge bullet and buying out the last Stiles family parcel, the pawn shop, and removing that eyesore and the gas station so that site lines to the main buildings can be improved. And they have literally 10's of thousands of square feet of blank white wall that could have been painted with music and entertainment type murals that would catch the eye from Monroe.

But we also know none of that is going to happen. Based on everything I'v read and heard, they are short on capital and tenants. And they have been getting wiped out in bidding wars with other projects for the top tenants willing to come into town.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by Watkins1973 » Wed May 17, 2017 5:36 pm

LCpro wrote:
No, that's is not correct.
Might be, or it might now; but that information came out of the former GM's (he retired) mouth.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by tricknole » Thu May 18, 2017 1:15 am

LCpro wrote:I'd just like to point out that, while I am very disappointed with the way the Centre redevelopment has turned out, hoping for it to be "torn down" is hoping for many people to lose their jobs and for Tallahassee to lose numerous businesses that will find it hard to relocate in other areas of town, and certainly not in any quick manner. It is highly unlikely anyone with a lick of sense would see "tearing it down" as a feasible alternative at this point anyway.
I'm hoping for it to completely fail and/or be torn down.

I basically disagree with everything else you say. Continuing with an, at best, half cocked plan is already costing people their job.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Thu May 18, 2017 8:26 am

One of my neighbors had an interesting idea. Turn it into a joint satellite campus for FSU/FAMU/TCC (any combo) for business/economics programs. They might actually run it better that way.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by StrikerObi » Thu May 18, 2017 8:30 am

No way FSU would ever go in for that. Any expansion they do will be in the downtown core.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by downtownster » Thu May 18, 2017 10:26 am

StrikerObi wrote:No way FSU would ever go in for that. Any expansion they do will be in the downtown core.
Hope not.....let downtown be downtown. I know my post should be under FSU or a downtown topic. BTW there was an extensive article in Dem other day about FSU's SW campus and future growth that didnt get mentioned here.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2 ... 101567286/

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by StrikerObi » Tue May 23, 2017 8:47 am

downtownster wrote:Hope not.....let downtown be downtown. I know my post should be under FSU or a downtown topic. BTW there was an extensive article in Dem other day about FSU's SW campus and future growth that didnt get mentioned here.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2 ... 101567286/
From what I can tell they're coming downtown as soon as they can. The Moran School will be open on Monroe St in November and the College of Business has plans to eventually develop the empty lot across from the Civic Center. That plus the arena district will give FSU a pretty big presence downtown - although not directly on Monroe.

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Tue May 23, 2017 9:40 am

I think FSU has probably gone as far east as it intends. Much of the property they are developing or plan to develop was gotten low dough by either trades with other government entities (business college site) or through legislative action/transfer (civic center). The biggest problem for FSU further growth to the east is competing with the real big spenders in lobbying and business that want to be in the downtown core for access to the Capital.

Which is why the SW campus makes a whole heck of a lot more sense for long term development. The land is cheap around it and there is already an FSU footprint there.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by StrikerObi » Tue May 23, 2017 3:35 pm

I agree that the SW campus is more do-able. But FSU wants a presence downtown, they want to be seen by legislators on a daily basis. And between the arena district and Burnett Park across the street, they'll get there eventually.

Details at https://business.fsu.edu/legacy-hall/location

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by tricknole » Tue May 23, 2017 4:15 pm

I'm all for FSU talk, but can it be kept in an FSU thread?

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by StrikerObi » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:46 am

Yeah we got a bit off track didn't we?

Anyway, this mall is still a giant dumpster fire of a project eh?

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:10 am

Funny thing is, as the interior of the un-renovated section gets worse and worse, my wife and I have become less and less likely to even go to AMC to see the big blockbuster movies in the big IMAX 3D auditorium. Because IMAX controls the seating in that auditorium, it was not converted to the loungers. So the last few Marvel films my wife and I went to the Challenger IMAX instead because the seats are about the same, the new movies come out at the same time, the prices are much cheaper, Harry's is right there next to the theatre and its a bigger screen.

And we only live a couple blocks from the AMC.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:23 am

Still no upcoming shows scheduled. Given that acts have to be booked at least 45 days in advance - sometimes 60 to 90 - looks like nothing before Labor Day if they even get someone then. Willie was the last real show and that was early March(I heard Blink 182 was a complete disaster, maybe a thousand people). The Arena is the only way they were generating income. Wonder what has happened with scheduling shows? Wonder if they have gotten any interest in the "outparcels" available? That looks like the current scheme to get some cash flow in, but there's probably few takers.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:07 pm

Part of the problem with the concert model is.....SUMMER IS HERE!!!

Between heat, humidity and mosquitos, who wants to go to an outdoor show, even in evening.

It was a bad business plan from the get go. This project has too many directions its trying to go in at one time and none really seem to be working with each other AND have the capital to do right. Concert hall, school, apartments, hotel, restaurants, grocery store and ....retail. This shot gun approach has led to them not doing any single one thing well, or at all.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:42 pm

I kind of agree that Tallahassee isn't exactly the ideal city for an outdoor arena. Summer weather is too hot and unpredictable while the winters are a little too cold especially in the evening when these events are planned.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:12 pm

Geography is a bitch for this town sometimes. I love the fact there is 3.5 seasons and hills after living in flat central coastal Florida all my life with 2 seasons. But Tallahassee suffers from some kind of nightmarish dead air thing, especially during the summer. Where I used to live, it might be hotter but there was a sea breeze almost all the time which made outdoors reasonably bearable. During the summer here in Tally, it just seems like hot humid air stops moving and even the evening gives no respite.

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