Centre of Tallahassee

Coverage and Discussion of Projects Underway within the City of Tallahassee and Leon County.

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:39 am

There is a wave of lease agreement options coming up for renewal this year for several of the pre-Centre tenants. If they for the most part do or don't renew will determine the fate of the Centre.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by downtownster » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:36 am

If (when) Sears goes under I wonder is Belk will try to go to Gov Sq?

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LCpro
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:52 pm

chudan wrote:There is a wave of lease agreement options coming up for renewal this year for several of the pre-Centre tenants. If they for the most part do or don't renew will determine the fate of the Centre.
I don't anticipate any major stores closing up shop, but maybe renegotiate their leases. I don't know all which one's are up, but I would be shocked if Barnes, Guitar Center, Belk or Burlington closed. They'd have no presence in town. Just don't see it. The ones with dual stores at Governor Square may(Gap, Victoria, who else?). And AMC is in for the long hall.

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chudan
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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:39 pm

I know the Barnes managers I have talked to have said their sales have plunged since the amphitheater went in. Show night means no sales and they were killed by several holiday concerts during Christmas. Belk could move if Gov Square incentivized it if/when Sears shutters its doors. Burlington is probably there for a longer haul as they spent their own money renovating just before it became Centre. Same is true with AMC, they are pretty much locked in with their recent lounger upgrade. But both those shops are seeming to hold their own DESPITE everything the Centre does. The big issue is all the little shops (VS included) that fill in a lot of promenade frontage in the old building. They are literally dying on the vine due to lack of sales. As an experiment, go to the Centre on a Friday or Saturday and then immediately drive to Gov Square and look at the foot traffic in the public space and inside the two stores at both locations (Bath and Body, Victoria Secret). You can also do this with Barnes and Books a Million in its new location. In fact, if the old BAM location is available, don't be surprised if B&N ended up there. Any way you look at comparing these comparable locations, its not pretty.

If I was a betting man, my predictions for leaving/closing timelines would be:

Victoria Secret before next Christmas (depending on how much is left on their lease, consolidate to Gov Square)
Stone Age less than a year (might move to Midtown)
Bath and Body Works less than a year (consolidate to Gov Square)
Belk is whenever a big enough space (Sears or even Kohls if they end up closing either/both) opens up. That would even include new space out by East Mahan towards I-10.
Barnes and Noble is literally an any month now in my book (pun intended).

I think what will happen is that as soon as one of the more 'established' long time tenants leave, there will be a mad scramble after that.

And if the management company at Northwood gets their act together in cleaning up the facility and making good deals on rent, they could be in a great position to pick off some of the Centre tenants that don't want to go to Gov Square. The store owner I mentioned who is looking to buy a location was approached by them with a really good offer, but she really, REALLY wants to own her site as opposed to leasing (got burned by her current commercial landlord).

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by florida » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:39 pm

I agree, it seems like things with this development have been mishandled since they teased they had a slew of new tenant announcements to make prior to last October. Nothing since the huge "Urban Food Market" announcement, I feel bad for Dreamland BBQ because I'm sure they were promised the world to attract them to the center and little has developed around them for support. 

I maintain, that for this to have been impactful, the entire mall/centre needed to close COMPLETELY. Everything needed to be renovated, and the grand opening should have been... Grand. 

Things have been opening 1 piece at a time and the experience is sub-par, especially for those of us used to other Lifestyle shopping centers and what those should look/feel like or even remember what the Tallahassee Mall was during its peek days.

Some people have stopped short of using the word disappointed, but in some ways, the abandoned feel of the Centre of Tallahassee, especially during the Christmas season, left me feeling that way.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:50 am

chudan wrote:I You can also do this with Barnes and Books a Million in its new location. In fact, if the old BAM location is available, don't be surprised if B&N ended up there.
I'm not sure if I am reading this right or not. What are BAM's new and old locations? Its not moving from Thomasville Road, is it?

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by DMartin » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:04 am

LCpro wrote:
chudan wrote:I You can also do this with Barnes and Books a Million in its new location. In fact, if the old BAM location is available, don't be surprised if B&N ended up there.
I'm not sure if I am reading this right or not. What are BAM's new and old locations? Its not moving from Thomasville Road, is it?
Old location was on Apalachee Parkway. New location is Thomasville Rd.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:40 am

Yeah, I think it used to be in Parkway Center where Bealls Outlet store is located. Old Golds Gem location right next door is available and that shopping center actually stays pretty busy.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by DMartin » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:02 pm

chudan wrote:Yeah, I think it used to be in Parkway Center where Bealls Outlet store is located. Old Golds Gem location right next door is available and that shopping center actually stays pretty busy.
I think I've only been there once since it moved to the new location. I used to go all the time when it was on the Parkway. I guess they moved because of competition from Barnes and Noble and Borders...but those are both gone from the Parkway now.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by downtownster » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:41 pm

chudan wrote:Yeah, I think it used to be in Parkway Center where Bealls Outlet store is located. Old Golds Gem location right next door is available and that shopping center actually stays pretty busy.


Correct....BAM was in Bealls spot and Borders and B&N was close by. I too used to go to this BAM but hardly since closed. Same for B&N.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by downtownster » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:47 pm

florida wrote:I agree, it seems like things with this development have been mishandled since they teased they had a slew of new tenant announcements to make prior to last October. Nothing since the huge "Urban Food Market" announcement, I feel bad for Dreamland BBQ because I'm sure they were promised the world to attract them to the center and little has developed around them for support. 

I maintain, that for this to have been impactful, the entire mall/centre needed to close COMPLETELY. Everything needed to be renovated, and the grand opening should have been... Grand. 

Things have been opening 1 piece at a time and the experience is sub-par, especially for those of us used to other Lifestyle shopping centers and what those should look/feel like or even remember what the Tallahassee Mall was during its peek days.

Some people have stopped short of using the word disappointed, but in some ways, the abandoned feel of the Centre of Tallahassee, especially during the Christmas season, left me feeling that way.
Agree with you completely especially after all the ink they got in the DEM. Look at what a smashing success Magnolia Walk (correct name for Magnilia & Park ?????) has been. I think the spaces were pre-leased and built to suit. Im not pleased to say it but the Centre as a rehab'd mall is a joke.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:18 am

Florida's point about shutting the whole thing down is spot on. I would say that closing everything, except maybe Belk, AMC and Burlington due to their own entrances and recent renovations, would have allowed for a complete overhaul. Frankly, my guess is that a pseudo pyramid scheme is going on, based on issues for contractors and liens they have filed. IMHO, I believe the developers thought the early projects would pay for the later stuff so they went in with less cash then they needed to renovate whole mall.

Then throw on this BS with the 'luxury apartments'. Really, people are going to want to rent luxury apartments next to a mall that looks and feels incomplete? :roll:

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by music4life85 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 am

DMartin wrote:
LCpro wrote:
chudan wrote:I You can also do this with Barnes and Books a Million in its new location. In fact, if the old BAM location is available, don't be surprised if B&N ended up there.
I'm not sure if I am reading this right or not. What are BAM's new and old locations? Its not moving from Thomasville Road, is it?
Old location was on Apalachee Parkway. New location is Thomasville Rd.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure we used to have two BAM locations at the same time back in the day. The one on Apalachee Pkwy where the Bealls Outlet is, as well as where their current location is on Tville Rd. They closed their Parkway location years ago but kept the Tville Rd location open and renovated it.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:09 pm

If they would have "closed the mall" completely up front, then they would have not only lost all those stores that wouldn't come back, but they wouldn't have the revenue from those leases resulting in an even worse cash crunch. Those store are people's jobs and lives; you close them, the people move on and the stores likely never come back. That wasn't even a possibility.

I don't know what they were thinking other than they obviously believed retail tenants would be easy to come by(which they haven't). If they are this bad off, I don't understand why they spent more money to advertise the "luxury apartments". Further, it is kind of interesting that they have not scheduled any more concerts after Willie in the first week in march. The whole thing is a big mystery to me.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:18 pm

Well, at a minimum the could have moved everyone in the single level section into the Belks end of the upper mall (except Victoria Secrets? and Burlington) and closed everything from the stairs to the entrance by Urban Food Market. That gets all the foot traffic into one area that is relatively busy. At least keep everything from being so spread out. And that is the big issue, no one goes into the single level floor area because it is so sparse.

From the get go this has been badly handled from a mall management perspective. They have rolled out several 'initiatives' that appeared bigger than they were in reality, they have an absolutely horrible understanding of the local retail environment (the North Monroe corridor), and they are making their current retailers suffer for bad decision-making on the amphitheater.

And the problem for the retailers (aside from Byrlington, Belk and AMC) is they are probably losing more money than if they had been closed or moved temporarily.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by Watkins1973 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:02 pm

LCpro wrote:Further, it is kind of interesting that they have not scheduled any more concerts after Willie in the first week in march. The whole thing is a big mystery to me.
http://tallypavilion.com/

They did, they've added Blink-182 in May.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:20 pm

Watkins1973 wrote:
LCpro wrote:Further, it is kind of interesting that they have not scheduled any more concerts after Willie in the first week in march. The whole thing is a big mystery to me.
http://tallypavilion.com/

They did, they've added Blink-182 in May.
Yeh, just saw that on my FB feed.

Not sure how that one will go over. They seem to be hit/miss with the performers they have chosen.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by crausc894 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:07 am

I just saw Blink 182 in Tampa and it was sold out. They have a large fan base and still can pack a show. Different venue I know, but I think it will be a large draw. Hopefully it can help get a good push going.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:49 pm

Keep an eye on the Burlington Coat Factory. They have cleared out about half the inventory recently with huge amounts of empty floor space. According to staff, they are getting ready to do a big renovation.

It does seem like they renovated not that long ago, but I could be wrong about that.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by downtownster » Tue May 16, 2017 12:43 pm

Tally Ddem reports the mall redveloper, Alex Baker, passed away Sunday.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2 ... 101747676/

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by chudan » Tue May 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Wow, that is sad to hear. My condolences to the family.

On another note, this quote is a bit concerning:
Baker’s sudden death on Sunday was a shock, according to current and former employees of the family-owned business. They say of all of Baker’s projects, the mall was his “baby.”

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by thedoorlatch » Tue May 16, 2017 3:04 pm

I agree with Ziffer's position that questions about the mall project are premature considering the tragedy that occurred.

That being said, I will make a brief conjecture that I would not be surprised if those within the company who did not bear the same sentimental value for the project axed it and sold the entire lot off to the next person. I am ok with that happening.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by tricknole » Tue May 16, 2017 11:08 pm

thedoorlatch wrote:I agree with Ziffer's position that questions about the mall project are premature considering the tragedy that occurred.
You're kidding right? The mall has been a turd since last summer. That was well before his recent passing.

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by thedoorlatch » Wed May 17, 2017 3:46 am

tricknole wrote:
thedoorlatch wrote:I agree with Ziffer's position that questions about the mall project are premature considering the tragedy that occurred.
You're kidding right? The mall has been a turd since last summer. That was well before his recent passing.
If you've seen my posts in this thread you could deduce we're on the same page... I'm being cordial with a preface to saying "finally the site can be sold and redone according to modern standards of urban planning."

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Re: Centre of Tallahassee

Unread post by LCpro » Wed May 17, 2017 8:36 am

I'd just like to point out that, while I am very disappointed with the way the Centre redevelopment has turned out, hoping for it to be "torn down" is hoping for many people to lose their jobs and for Tallahassee to lose numerous businesses that will find it hard to relocate in other areas of town, and certainly not in any quick manner. It is highly unlikely anyone with a lick of sense would see "tearing it down" as a feasible alternative at this point anyway.

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